Curse

Eonwe · Oct 14, 2005, 01:49 AM // 01:49

Running three warriors in the first place is sketchy, but I won't get into that. Also, if someone else has Eviscerate, why not bring something that's actually good... like a hammer warrior with devastating, or even a sword warrior with galrath/final and charge to help with the spike? Battle Rage, like I said before, is trash.

twicky_kid · Oct 14, 2005, 01:50 AM // 01:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeru

With 10 in strength battle rage is...15 seconds I believe. It's around 14-16 for the average person.

Can your team spike every 14-16 seconds without flaw? If not, battle rage is trash. And very very few times can a team sustain a full spike that often. The extra adren gained is useless if you can't use it effectively.

Actually it's more like once every 7-8 seconds because if you're using an elite to charge adren in the normal amount of time it would for running just plain sprint, what the hell are you thinking? Teams simply cannot spike once every 7-8 seconds.

Losing all adren every quarter minute is a huge huge flaw that murders the viability.

Finally, you can't spike with it because you have no IAS. With the type of defenses people are using spiking is really the only way to break through: constant dps doesn't cut it anymore.

first question...what does sprint have to do with adrenaline? you might want to rephase that. BR gives 25% faster run speed so don't know where you going with that one.

you can maintain BR which never loses the stream. you have 2-3 hits to recover from recasting BR. even though you lose all adrenaline you are gaining 2 every hit. while in BR it only takes 2 hits to recharge it again.

as the math above indicates you can have 10 adrenaline every 7 seconds. so your question of can i spike every 14-16 yes. not only after i spike i'm still going.

this build is for not wasting a good elite slot on evis when other teamates already have it.

twicky_kid · Oct 14, 2005, 01:55 AM // 01:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eonwe

Running three warriors in the first place is sketchy, but I won't get into that. Also, if someone else has Eviscerate, why not bring something that's actually good... like a hammer warrior with devastating, or even a sword warrior with galrath/final and charge to help with the spike? Battle Rage, like I said before, is trash.

3 wars was an example. doesn't mean i accually run 3. then again the highest ranked guild (before reset) i fought which was ranked 31 did run 3 wars. we got massacred on that one.

devastating takes how long to charge up? lol

if we are bashing my thread b/c of no ias then why use a hammer at all. contradicting yourself.

still no numbers to back any of your opinions.

Eonwe · Oct 14, 2005, 02:00 AM // 02:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

3 wars was an example. doesn't mean i accually run 3. then again the highest ranked guild (before reset) i fought which was ranked 31 did run 3 wars. we got massacred on that one.

That's pretty pathetic.

Quote:

devastating takes how long to charge up? lol

7 Adrenaline, the same as eviscerate. Your point?

Quote:

if we are bashing my thread b/c of no ias then why use a hammer at all. contradicting yourself.

I'm bashing it because there are a plethora of better options to run over Battle Rage. Why use hammer at all you say, where the hell is the logic behind that? A hammer warrior with an attack speed buff will still be hitting faster than a scrub with Battle Rage, and he'll actually be getting kills. *shrugs*

twicky_kid · Oct 14, 2005, 02:06 AM // 02:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eonwe

7 Adrenaline, the same as eviscerate. Your point?

my point is that hammers are slow attack speed making it a longer charge time. 6 is even far streched for a hammer compared to sword and axe.

give me numbers opinions mean nothing.

i guess that rank 31 guild before reset was pretty pathedic huh?

you are just trolling now with dumb comments like that. if only there was an ignore button.

Eonwe · Oct 14, 2005, 02:08 AM // 02:08

Ok, I give up. If you want to keep running garbage, knock yourself out.

entropy · Oct 14, 2005, 02:09 AM // 02:09

Twicky your build is shit. Thats about it. Your ignorance to this fact is not helping at all. No matter how much you argue shit=shit.

twicky_kid · Oct 14, 2005, 02:23 AM // 02:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eonwe

Ok, I give up. If you want to keep running garbage, knock yourself out.

no number another opinion. i will keep running it b/c i works. if you don't want to use it that's fine then don't. not twisting your arm to keep coming here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by entropy

Twicky your build is shit. Thats about it. Your ignorance to this fact is not helping at all. No matter how much you argue shit=shit.

same as above.

thank you both for posting and have a nice day

Zelc · Oct 14, 2005, 03:03 AM // 03:03

You forgot one important thing in your "numbers": the amount of damage you actually do. Eviscerate + Executioner's Strike with an attack speed boost gives the game's best spike, while Battle Rage can maybe increase your dps a bit. Unless your team build is designed around shutting enemy Monks down or overloading them with AoE, you're not going to kill stuff with good DPS. BR gains more adrenaline, great. It doesn't deal more damage.

Oh well, at least he'll be easy to beat

.

twicky_kid · Oct 14, 2005, 03:15 AM // 03:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zelc

You forgot one important thing in your "numbers": the amount of damage you actually do. Eviscerate + Executioner's Strike with an attack speed boost gives the game's best spike, while Battle Rage can maybe increase your dps a bit. Unless your team build is designed around shutting enemy Monks down or overloading them with AoE, you're not going to kill stuff with good DPS. BR gains more adrenaline, great. It doesn't deal more damage.

Oh well, at least he'll be easy to beat

.

sever artery 6 dmg per sec from hp degen basicly add 14 dmg to every 2 attacks. gotton 90 dmg gash before (critical of course) usually around 50-60 dmg while adding deep wound (100 dmg on avg). galrath slash 70 dmg avg. final thrust (target is now way below half life) 110 to 120 dmg avg.

1.33 sec for attack so bleeding over the course of the next 3 attacks will do 24 dmg. normal attack (30 dmg)+24+55+100+80+110= 399

so we have evis 80 dmg + deep wound 100 dmg + excutioner's 80 dmg = 260.

now which one is better again?

Man With No Name · Oct 14, 2005, 03:23 AM // 03:23

Axe wins -- where are you pulling your numbers from..??

At 16 Axe Mastery and with 12 Strength a critical Eviscerate and Executioner's Strike against 60AL consistantly do 115~ each ( often even higher ) + Deep Wound ( 80~ ) + Penetrating Blow ( 90~ ) == 115x2 + 90 + 80 == 400 damage spike -- and that's without buffs

Once we add in all the DoT from IAS -- your Battle Rage is blown outta the water. I've also done more damage than your above example with one less skill -- gg

Getting buffed up with JI, SoH, Order of Vamp, Order of Pain, Conjures, etc + Vampiric Mod's puts Battle Rage to an even greater amount of shame.

I'll just quote this again:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eonwe

Ok, I give up. If you want to keep running garbage, knock yourself out.

twicky_kid · Oct 14, 2005, 04:03 AM // 04:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Man With No Name

At 16 Axe Mastery and with 12 Strength a critical Eviscerate and Executioner's Strike against 60AL consistantly do 115~ each ( often even higher ) + Deep Wound ( 80~ ) + Penetrating Blow ( 90~ ) == 115x2 + 90 + 80 == 400 damage spike -- and that's without buffs

Once we add in all the DoT from IAS -- your Battle Rage is blown outta the water. I've also done more damage than your above example with one less skill -- gg

you are counting critical. every hit is NOT going to be a critical. my numbers are normal attack w/o criticals. if i added criticals to each of my attacks i would come out much more than evis + executioners.

try it with normal dmg not critical. if my dmg beats your's w/o critical then the critical dmg calculation will be that much more.

Hippie Crack · Oct 14, 2005, 05:41 AM // 05:41

You missed out 1 HUGE factor in your calculation there. The evis + exec spike gets pulled off in less than 2 seconds time. I've allready dealt my 300 damage and the guy is dead by the time your swinging your second attack. When your second attack finally does come around, a monk has allready hit the target for a 5en, 100hp heal, completely nullifying your spike. Then by time your third attack crawls up, the monks 4pips energy regen allready regened the 5en and he's ready to hit him for another 100hp heal while your trying to "spike" with 60 damage attacks and no IAS.....LOL

PLEASE learn what a spike is. If an attack combo doesn't drop someone in under 2-3 seconds it isn't a spike IMO because i can heal it.

Even from a DPS perspective, Cleave + IAS > BR

pagansaint · Oct 14, 2005, 06:22 AM // 06:22

You may gain your adrenaline faster using BR than a typical IAS build but unloading your chain takes a GOOD deal longer.

What results is the IAS doing MORE DPS due to faster attack speed, gaining the adrenaline slower BUT the end of their spike will come a bare fraction of time slower than your skill combo due to how long it takes you to do your 1.33s attacks.

And their spike won't have a negating heal or two slipped in unless the healer is REALLY on top of his game.

twicky_kid · Oct 14, 2005, 06:34 AM // 06:34

still not getting the point that the dmg is very high and mantainable.

not trying to replace the evis + executioners. my point is after deep wound is applied all the other evis wars now have a very expensive dmg skill with 1 adren per second.

this was built for my team. we have 2 wars. one is w/r with evis i use BR. have changed the build alot and final result is in another post.

TheCrusader · Oct 14, 2005, 07:16 AM // 07:16

IF you wont see reason that BR sucks, please at LEAST understand that Apply Poison sucks...

Zeru · Oct 14, 2005, 07:20 AM // 07:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

3 wars was an example. doesn't mean i accually run 3. then again the highest ranked guild (before reset) i fought which was ranked 31 did run 3 wars. we got massacred on that one.

I've rang for these guys, they have a powerful build with mediocre players for the most part.

It's 4 warriors, all buffed stacked like crazy, with almost permanent speed buffs, and several snares/kds. Nobody uses battle rage in it because their spike would then suck. Their spike is basically an instant-kill. Two sources of deepwounds because 1 evisc may be blocked (it relies on powering through any defense with pure brute force).

Quote:

first question...what does sprint have to do with adrenaline? you might want to rephase that. BR gives 25% faster run speed so don't know where you going with that one.

you can maintain BR which never loses the stream. you have 2-3 hits to recover from recasting BR. even though you lose all adrenaline you are gaining 2 every hit. while in BR it only takes 2 hits to recharge it again.

as the math above indicates you can have 10 adrenaline every 7 seconds. so your question of can i spike every 14-16 yes. not only after i spike i'm still going.

this build is for not wasting a good elite slot on evis when other teamates already have it.

You missed what I said completely.

YOU can spike every 7 or so seconds. No reasonable character on your team can sustain a powerful spike that often for too long. Once every 10 seconds is pushing most teams spiking capabilities. Once every 15 seconds is going to be the most reasonable thing.

Look at it this way: You're spending 7 seconds to gain adren you'll use 14 seconds later in a spike because there's no point in spiking without your teams support. Your elite is letting you charge your spike faster, but you still can't use it any faster than before. You also have a very slow spike.

Running two axes also isn't the best idea usually.

1 sword will give you a powerful 2 hit spike with charge. Add sprint and that's almost a 100% speed boost.

1 Hammer will let you keep a target in place and stop him from effectively doing anything during the spike.

Running two evisc is nice do just brute force through blocks/evades. Other than that running one of the former options would be far better than a Battle Rage person.

Yukito Kunisaki · Oct 14, 2005, 03:53 PM // 15:53

Just get one of your teammates to die, then use IWAY with BR after it. There, happy? ;p

That's probably the ONLY way BR will ever be seen as useful...

smurfhunter · Oct 14, 2005, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

Just get one of your teammates to die, then use IWAY with BR after it. There, happy? ;p

That's probably the ONLY way BR will ever be seen as useful...

i tried that on an r/w with a pet... didnt work too well

Yukito Kunisaki · Oct 14, 2005, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfhunter

i tried that on an r/w with a pet... didnt work too well

Dur, of course it won't work, you have no strength.